Feb 2

Show Notes with Shannon-Jesus Payan

Tonight I have joining me, Jesus Payan. He is a researcher of all things Fortean, and has been doing so, for over 20 years. He had experiences when he was young that drove him to search in Europe and all over North America for things unknown. He is a member of Kryder Exploration and Crypto Four Corners, and has been chosen as a field researcher for The Falcon Project. Jesus recently had an up-close sighting of a Sasquatch and will be sharing that story for the first time tonight.



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132 Responses to “Show Notes with Shannon-Jesus Payan”

  1. Patrick W

    Come on Shannon , this billy bull shitter dude(Steve) had no business wasting our time w his over 20 encounters (big red flag) nada one thing he said sounded believable. GTFO… Most people never have 1 encounter but Steve had over 20. One in his friends front yard ????? Flute player show tonight. ΒΏ??

      • Trevor B

        No offense but you suck….What? I said “No offense.” (I hope you get my point) I am supprised at all the negativity that this episode sparked. They can’t ALL be winning shows. Sometimes you get a stinker…perhaps you could register your displeasure for the interview without whipping the host. I get the impression that Shannon’s regularly shceduled guest backed out at the last minute…why is that HER fault?

    • Eric Z

      This quack gypsy,what a bunch of trumpery! I could of called up & spun a better tale- on the spot. Example: For Sixteen generation’s now;my family has been breeding a menagerie of( Hybrid Types) of sasquatches, At an undisclosed rock quarry. Where they’ve been suited up with armor and trained in beserker fu Jitsu In the thousands. At the sound of our cacophonous trumpets- these cantankerous beasts will be unleashed on our foes! like an impetuous Uraki Orc Horde… Sasquatch Chronicles what say you lol

    • Stacy F

      Ugh, I’m just listening to this guy now…I know that the long-term encounters are not impossible because it’s like that where we do our thing but jeez…this guy is just full of crap. Maybe he does have fairly regular sightings but he’s gone around the bend.

    • Patrick W

      Telling their lies, (I mean “story”) is fine but it seems that every call in show is the same. These guys seem to be throwing out nada but stuff they have heard on this show themselfs. Like nobody will notice. Further the staff seems to have a problem moveing on to the next caller no mater how messed up the call is. Oh I get it we cant be rude now right? Sorry but I believe paying to hear obvious liars that cant keep their story strait for 2 min is more rude, plus its also very disrespectful and insulting. Lets all worry about the feelings of outright atention whore liars but not the way paid members feel? Hmmm.. Also this isnt close the first one of these. I guess I just value a persons word more then some people do. Sorry

  2. Greg V

    I haven’t seen a Sasquatch myself, however I always thought that the stories here were interesting, even if they’re unprovable….tonight’s guest Steve provided a stark contrast to the vast majority of the accounts heard on this show. Frankly his stories just sounded fabricated to me. I actually think an episode like this one is helpful in that it made the other accounts seem more credible by comparison.

    • SteelcityNS

      I loved the tone of voice you used when questioning that statement Haaaaaa !Ya can’t just tella guy to fuck off in the middle of an interview right ? OBVIOUSLY. You guys pick the best outro music on both shows, for nodding off to sleep. Who’s responsible for those selections ? Both now make me jones for the northern Ontario wilderness all winter, love it. I don’t mind the bullshitters they’re quite entertaining. Especially when you, or Wes are tongue-in-cheekin’ em’.

    • Andrew T

      Just read some of the disgusting foul language posted by Patrick what a shame we can’t talk about sasquatch instead. Anyway Shannon you get better with each show and I enjoy your Monday show lots. Even though I too thought Steve was not one of the shows best moments it is no reason to criticise you in any way. Best wishes from London England to you and the team.

    • michael r

      shannon doesn’t know the difference imo she is a cutie in over her head, i would hope that wes and woody look for a “bun” in the sausage fest like connie fox who is neck deep and not as pretty as shannon but has the grit and resolve to research solo as a woman

    • John s

      I second that makes you wonder how those two can even afford electricity to power the devices which they use to leave these comments!! Patrick and William I salute your intense thrifty – ness it’s hilarious coming from a pair of men

    • Patrick W

      Its not the amount of money you little puke fuck. Its dealing with fagit little kiss asses like you and Elmer fud..So you two can go bump dick heads and french kiss each other if ya need to, but from now on mke my name tast like shit in your mouth fellas…..

      • Janetta V

        Dear Patrick W, All of these bad things you’ve been saying to everybody came out of your brain, no one else, your brain, I am seeing the YOU alone are the worthless encounter. Love ya.

      • JAMES B

        Look, I don’t mind all the comments. There ere for a reason. Feedback for the show to help them steer where it goes and what subscribers think n feel about its content. No harm, no foul. But I do take offense to the use of the word ”fagit”
        You mingt as well be saying ”Niger” truly bad form man,… bad form

    • Patrick W

      Whats obvious is Elmer Fuds a little ritch bitch that would have a dentist bill of a kingly sum if he talked like that to my face. So keep hiden behind mamas pc screen chump.

  3. jamie smith

    Jesus Payan it was great to hear such an honest person just tell what they have seen and heard , I too agree with you on your thoughts about how to approach these creatures , yelling and screaming will only scare off anything in the bush. Basically all I do is go too the same area continuously and just sit and listen, why chase something that is the master of it’s domain . Great show Shannon !!! And I also liked that Jesus chooses not to disagree with anyone , he just keeps an open mind .

  4. James C

    Jesus lost me at “Thought Communication”. I think this site has gained a lot of followers because they have tried to stay away from the supernatural and stuck to more of a common sense approach. Then you listen on Mondays and it’s like listening to Coast to Coast Radio. Which is ok, but it takes away from the originality of the show.

  5. Charlie B

    Hello from the U.K. I have heard every show and I’m sorry but this dude steve has just took parts of other people’s accounts and made his own story up .steve is the first guest on this show that I hands down don’t belive but you are always going to get one now and then but keep up the good work , charlie , worcester , uk

    • cynthia j

      I was really enjoying Shannon’s show.when the last part of her interview with Jesus Pagan was cut off right at the spot when he was describing his encounter. Is there any way I can get the last portion of the interview to play for me?

  6. Michael M

    Steve keeps saying, “…. unbelievable, unbelievable, incredible, incredible”; I fully agree with him. He likes to tell a story. Shannon you were very gracious to humor him and it’s always best not to be rude like some of the members. Thanks for being a class act.

  7. craig b

    Greatest descriptive quote I’ve heard in a while, at the 23:03 mark, “I was powerful scared” that was fantastic. I love when they have people or hunters from the South, they have the best sayings and phrases to describe stuff.

  8. Mikel F

    “I looked out my window, and saw a Sasquatch Chasing a deer” Wow, Really?

    I love the show and don’t blame Shannon, but some of these posers trying to get a few minutes of “fame” by calling in and making up REALLY LAME stories just drive me nuts…

    Why don’t we all just go visit Steve and be guaranteed to see one?!?

  9. Brad L

    I think Shannon attracts the freaks… Steve may be delusional but it was a fascinating study of how much information is out there, little tidbits to be thrown into any Bigfoot story to make it both realistic and utter BS. I like Will’s “controls” of withholding certain info now, just to verify claims. As for Jesus, I don’t know about his veracity but I question him through association, specifically JC Johnson, who is a very dubious “researcher” (Google his impossible number of incidents to see for yourself). Also, the greatest concern to me was any guy 6’3 400lbs walking in the woods at night — talk about putting yourself in danger! Great job, Shonnon, we members need to buy her a gong for these guests, or a bong πŸ˜‰

    • Steven P

      LOL I think Shannon attracts everybody, she was very respectful like a good host should be. Let the listeners judge for themselves. To grow a good crop occasionally you got to throw some shit in there. Shannons show doesn’t need to be the same as the original , it needs to push the envelope a little, like this one did. Just because somebody is interviewed its not always an endorsement of their veracity.

  10. Norman Racca

    LOL @ the rancher that came outside to see a Sasquatch “wrestling” with his cattle “from behind” then took off running when he was spotted! hahaha
    Shannon, I think we can add this to your “NO” list
    I grew up with cattle on the property….I think catching a Sasquatch raping one of my cows would be too much to handle πŸ™‚

    • Steven P

      LOL this behavior was referenced in one or Loren Coleman’s book, said when the cow would begin to start walking away the Sasquatch would lift up its feet and hang on till the cow stopped, then it would drop its feet and resume . If I remember correctly even Coleman thought this claim was a little dubious.

      LOL who knows though. Not an expert on animal husbandry, but with the limited population might be a reason for the lonely howls during the middle of the night out in the woods.

  11. Mark b

    Shannon how do you stop yourself from laughing out loud when you get bullshitters on the other end of the phone. His favourite word seems to be Unbelievable, exactlty Steve you said it for us all!!!

  12. Scott P

    Good lord…. Really ? He must have a “sightings” note pad he’s going from. This is why the vast majority don’t believe. I’m actually doubting myself now… Probably the same guy that posted the NYC park video…lol. Nicely handled Shannon.

  13. DonRay

    Good show Shannon and guests (excluding Steve)…… i was going to say something about Steve, but it seems its been addressed…. Shannon Wes!! Is there anyway to give each of your members a gong??. just sayin

  14. Marc T

    I personally don’t care if someone tells a good story but is fibbing. You should listen to bill’s stories on inspiredbybigfoot.com. They are very entertaining. We just listen and not judge. This show has the most integrity of them all, AND THEY DONT GO ON AND ON BSING ABOUT THINGS OTHER THAN BIGFOOT LIKE SOME OTHER SHOWS!

  15. bill l

    I don’t know if this guy is BSing or not, but it really seems to bother some people here if a sasquatch encounter is not frightening, violent and aggressive.Is it so impossible to believe that not every one of them wants to kill and eat you?

  16. will m

    Shannon you were great. You were respectful with all your guests. I think you handled Steve with respect and did ask a few good questions that brought out more of his story, which helped me to be able to form an opinion on the validity of his story. As long as you treat everyone with respect more people will continue to come forward.

  17. bill l

    Good to see people on the show not pushing the idea that every bigfoot is hostile. There is so much we don’t know. I hate to see paradigms being established when we still have so much to find out about them.

  18. Sharon B

    Please, keep whatever you do in your pants to yourself… it does NOT make your story more believable and it’s just silly. There is NO WAY I’d EVER tell that part even if it was true… Same goes for the vomiting. Put on you big panties and man – up. Puh lese………..

  19. Michelle L

    I don’t agree with the ‘starting to wonder about my $7’ people. Meh, so a live one got through. One out of all the guests they’ve had on – this is a crisis? Shannon was great, handled it well. Let’s move on and remain grateful for the show and the hard work going into it instead of looking for faults.

  20. mark w

    My favorite line in the story is “I tried to get my phone to work, but it had no battery in it”. LOL!!! why would anyone be out in the woods with a phone with no battery?

    • Hayden

      I get what you are saying in that Wes and Will are the big draw to Sasquatch Chronicles because they have allegedly encountered multiple BF, but there is really no reason to insult Shannon. She is still relatively new to the show.

  21. Robert V

    Everyone they are doing a great job. Not every show is going to have a “great” show. What’s amazing is 99.9 % of the time the shows these three dedicated people produce is better than ANYTHING I’d ever see on T.V. Shannnon does a great job. Plus every person and show has it’s own style on interviewing. I’ve heard people complain when they interrupt and others complain when they don’t. They’ll learn when to do both.

    Good show guys.


  22. Brian R

    Well…can’t win ’em all Shannon. Keep on swinging though. You all are making an omelet here and that is well worth my subscription. This show helped hone my BS detectors…for this I thank you. You were a polite and respectful host.

  23. Brian R

    After all, how will we know the qualities of a truthful account if we don’t also know the qualities of a BS account? Additionally, we should be mindful of how we treat the BS accounts on the air as it may have the undesired effect of deterring those with truthful accounts that happen to be a little wacky from opening up and sharing. (Yeah…it pains me to say it….because I don’t put up with BS at all) Of course, try to filter out and pre-screen the wack ‘a’ moles, but when they slip through…learn from it. Just sayin’.

  24. Chris B

    To those of you commenting on Shannon’s looks as some sort of backhanded compliment before ripping her brains/interviewing skills….The 1950’s called, and they want their male chauvinism back. Truly pathetic. And “Show Notes” is part of the free content….not the life changing $7/month membership. Anybody with a “mind”, who can read the word {Members}, has already figured this out.

  25. Scott A

    The first guy’s accounts of a huge number of incidents sounds like a bunch of fragments of descriptions picked up from listening to previous Sasquatch Chronicles episodes.

  26. James L

    Wadday you talking about! I think Steve is right. Family is very important to these things, you know what I mean. I could totally see that the Alpha stays home in the winter while the wife takes the kids to go visit their grandam skunk ape in Boca. The Alphas need time alone so they can build new stick structures and make knocking sticks. I”m not saying it’s like a Million Squatch March to Florida or anything like that you know what I mean, but everyone needs a break.

    Now I think we can all begin to appreciate the pre-screening work these guys do behind the scenes before they bring someone on for an interview.

  27. Jim D

    I don’t know what it is but for some reason ol’ Steve seemed like he was trying to get Shannon to ask him to to show her exactly where he has seen these 20 encounters. I’m from the same part of the country as Steve and I know when a dude from there is hitting on a girl, especially a hot lady like Shannon. Now I will scroll back up and see if any other listeners heard what I heard, oh yea, and smelled what I was smelling.

  28. diana m

    lol, I got the feeling the first guy was just too thrilled to have a woman listen to him. Ugh.

    I like your professionalism in allowing the callers to speak their story. Also how quietly & subtlety you’re controlling your show. Keep up the great work, Shannon!

  29. Rick F

    While I do agree this particular episode was not what I am accustom to when it comes to SC, you have to be realistic in understanding that you’re going to get a terrible guest once in a while. I applaud the fact that SC is one of the extremely few places you can get clear and sensible information with meaningful content on this subject and not some bedtime story. As for Ms. Legro, I appreciate the fact she committed herself to do these podcasts. Its easy to be a critic, doing an interview is a whole other thing. It’s not easy.

    Where else can you learn from Will, Wes, and the gang about this subject matter at the less than $0.23 /day it cost to be a member. I believe some of you leave that much in the penny tray at the local quick mart.

  30. Asheim

    Shannon is a real lady and has plenty to offer this show in my opinion! And it’s bound to happen from time to time. Someone looking for a little attention. Researchers spend decades out in the field and never catch a glimpse and this guy has nothing less than 20 encounters. We have had so many amazing shows. I’m well sure many more to come.

  31. Dave T

    I have a BS detector connected to my IPad and it was beeping so loud I missed the whole interview with Steve the “Squatch Whisperer .” I did however like the interview with Jesus. Nice job Shannon. I still don’t know how you kept from saying “20 encounters my ass!”

  32. Aaron A

    It was clear Shannon realized what was going on by making him repeat the asinine statements he was making. She was stalling for Jesus to show up and figuring out how to segue this clown’s ass off the line in a respectful manner instead of simply blasting him which doesn’t take any skill at all. The whole idea of the show is to provide a safe place for people with legitimate encounters to tell their stories without ridicule. Had she just ripped that guy apart, people like say, Tracy from episode 75, may lose the nerve to tell us about their encounter.

  33. Dave T

    @Aaron A, you are right on the money. Shannon handles it great and I don’t like to hear people blaming her over someone like that making it on the show. There’s still plenty of entertainment just reading everyone’s comments about the show. LMAO

  34. charlene a

    No matter what site you join there are always the know it all and the bitter ones , oh and the debbie downers, so we will just ignore them, enjoy the show, cause most people are really enjoying the show, and that $7 I spent is well spent I feel like I am not paying enough, go figure lol

  35. Robert D

    Anyone else here with me on the fact that ‘Steve” sounds a helluva lot like Tom Biscardi? Biscardi is another who has had many many encounters………….in his mind.

  36. Brock B

    To all you Shannon-haters….. She handled the Steve interview like a pro. You can’t discredit a guest on the show….. It will jeopardize the shows future guests and inflow of information. If you are unhappy with all the hard work SC does, you can leave the community. You are my favorite host Shannon. I look forward to Show Notes every week. Thanks for being awesome!

  37. Jim D

    Shannon’s “problem” is that she’s too darn nice and too much of a lady to go off on a caller like Steve – even though he most certainly deserved it . I have to make an observation about what I’m seeing and hearing way too much of from the comments and even some of the callers; the who idea and usage of the word “haters” in describing anyone who happens to disagree with the general consensus. The last time we saw that kind of stuff was over on Facebook on the FB/FB page. It was the Rick Dyer crowd who started referring to any person who knew he was full of scat and told him and his minions so who were the main culprits. People who call other people haters are doing what we call projecting , IOW, accusing someone of doing and being exactly what the person using the term themselves are doing. I truly hope that lines in the sand don’t start getting drawn or letting what has happened to Bigfoot Evidence’s comment section, happen here.

  38. Carl M

    Can’t understand the negativity towards Shannon she didn’t endorses Steve, he was a call in. Not sure but seemed to me he was entertaining filler while we waited for her guest to call in. I’m much more likely to cancel my membership if bullies like Patrick W are not removed from the site, than if occasionally a kooky caller rambles on over dead air. My take is Shanon had a late guest so she took the only caller she had and let the guy tell his stories until someone else called in. No reason to lynch the woman. I enjoyed the show. Now please enforce a reasonable code of conduct on the site by removing people who threaten physical harm to other posters.

  39. Jeffrey H

    My Dearest Shannon: I want you to not feel bad about the interview with Steve. It could happen to any host at any time. The fact that it didn’t happen to this extent before was just the luck of the draw! You handled it like a pro, you weren’t rude, you listen and ended the conversation as soon as you could. Remember this gentleman Steve thinks there are “millions” of Sasquatch people, that wasn’t the only tip off but one of my favorite was the Sasquatch waiting for him when he left the hospital?? Steve has a city accent so I doubt if he lived near any Sasquatch’s. It’s a lesson well learn. If anyone wants to quit SC because of this one thing then there either is an underlying reason or they should be hanging out with Steve. Keep in mind that SC has stepped on some gov toes and I wouldn’t put it past the gov to try some stupid tricks like this either. Shannon, keep smillin, don’t get upset over something you had no control over. You do a great job on SC and we need a pretty lady to balance the mugs of Wes & Wil~ Just kiddin boys!


    SHANNON PLEASE DONT MIND THE FEW HATERS..(sniveling bitches).FOLLOW Andrew B glitch suggestion, it is effective and not too overt…I THOROUGHLY ENJOY SC…worth more than $7!

  41. Jimmy

    Shannon, you showed yourself to be a very classy host. Obviously, this steve guy was as nuts as a bag of cats, but you were gracious and sweet. Great job! Don’t listen to the whiners, you rock. πŸ™‚

  42. Robert D

    Aaron A and Carl M hit the nail on the head regarding Patrick W. I’d like to add william c in there as well. It’s obvious those two are in cahoots. Going through posts not only on this thread but others, they both have the wrong attitude for this group of paid members.

    Although I am accepting of someone’s threats of physicality with a lovely retort of making their wish come true, it has no place on this site whatsoever. Patrick W made a physical threat to Elmer Fudd, zero tolerance I say, ban them and give them their partial refund.
    This isn’t facebook where this kind of crap goes on.

    With their obvious lack of intellect and bully mentality, this place might just be better off without them in my opinion.

    • Andrew T

      Nice one mate. These idiots fly off the handle for no reason. why are they on this site I wonder. Thankfully we have many good folk on this site that will outweigh the cowards who insult others.
      Talking to these idiots is pointless because you can’t reason with a dunce.

  43. Sean C

    It’s too bad you can’t give refunds to all the people who constantly whine about the cost of membership! This show is awesome, and Shannon, you are a big part of that! Thank you!

  44. Carl M

    I would also like to see the SC hosts ban anyone who complains about the 7 bucks for membership. That and anyone who thinks 7 bucks entitles them to have any say about programming. Most of us spend more than $7 on stupid stuff everyday. I don’t spend $7 every month to read about you whiners spending $7.

  45. Letty

    I agree with Donald B. I decided to stop listening and write my review. This guy was so into himself and so called ‘celebrity status”. We had men call the show sharing their encounters emotional and traumatized and here is the this guy who finds it funny. No wonder he was on Finding Bigfoot. He crossed the line when he implied that Bob Garret is not credible. As a matter of fact, I don’t believe him. I hope this guy is not invited back and can go back to Hollyweird.

  46. Randy M

    There is a real danger that the show is sliding down the path of “Finding Bigfoot”, “Killing Bigfoot”, “Bigfoot Bounty”, etc.
    This show was not good, very disappointing content.

    • Hayden

      Unfortunately, many members on here are willing to believe any story presented to them, and they get mad when someone has questions for witnesses about an encounter! I do agree with Randy M. that show content can go downhill really fast if more nuts get airtime!

  47. Logan E

    My comment will just be a rehashing and retelling of all those before mine. Well, the parts I agree with anyway.

    When I heard “millions”, and my attention was already strapped at that, I skipped. Not gonna lie. Not gonna hate either, as I will listen to the show notes and everything else put out on this website. I love it all, and will certainly not attack a host over there credibility of a callers “story”. For all we know this is all happening to Steve, and now WE’RE the people shaking our fingers and saying “That’s can’t possibly be true!”. I’ve been on the receiving end of that, and it sucks. So I won’t do it here.

    What I will say is this…if your call queue is short and the caller you do have is sounding less and less believable, or marketable as we like to call it, flush the turd. Just say some crazy BS like you have a call or something that gets “disconnected” and then just talk.

    Most of the guys (Not myself included, nooo of course not .. ) hang on your every word/breath anyway Shannon, so just talk. It will get a million hits and you’ll continue to cement yourself in the “scene”. I’d rather hear that than something I find unbelievable anyway. Always gotta respect the “integrity” of the show!

  48. Carl M

    What is the danger? We are talking about one episode here right? Maybe a few lousy episodes in 75 should be expected, even way above average. I’ll take those odds. Besides, shouldn’t we let Shanon find her voice? She hasn’t hit her stride yet.
    The shear number of crazy people in the Bigfoot community at large should be reason enough to expect a few to get through the SC screening process. Don’t over react.

  49. Danny N

    As a sckeptic I find this show both interesting and informative, also entertaining. This is not the first show where I thought the guest was full of crap and I’m sure it won’t be the last. It’s up to me to decide, nobody else. Perhaps a more through pre-screening would alleviate some of these people.

    Some of the encounters make my skin crawl (Tracy, Wes, Woody). If they are not true then they are pretty dam good stories and are entertaining.

    I think the the majority of us haven’t seen a funky monkey and never will but I do believe this show is the best show of it’s type on the web. BTW – I don’t feel the need to kiss the hosts A$$, they would be paying me 7 bucks a month in that case! I do believe they would be fun to hang out with slam a few brews and swap stories.

    If you have listened to Wes and Woody’s first shows I think you would agree that they improved with time, just as Shannon has. There is a good balance presented by “down to earth” people with varying backgrounds. One with an interesting sighting, one with a long history of field investigation and one who is like most of us and would like to have a sighting.

    I’ve read most of the complaints and do not disagree with some of them. All I can say is I get more out of this seven bucks than I do for my one drive through burger combo. Open dialogue can only improve the show. I do find the name calling and putting the hosts down a little childish. I have been guilty of it in my younger years (mostly GreedBay deelings) but I have grown past all that crap.

    This site is a good repository of information. It saves me from researching and surfing most other sites.

    Drink a beer, chill, enjoy the show or change the channel!

    Keep up the good work Wes, Will and Shannon……….



    Shannon you ROCK GIRL!
    As for PATRICK W yes we all KNOW HE LIVES WITH HIS 85 yr old GRANDMA because no one else will take him in! Lol
    Its very EASY VEIWERS if you DONT RESPOND to this 5 yr old COMMENTS EVER who has the BRAIN OF A FRUIT FLY then he has NO AMMO and will soon get BORED ITS that SIMPLE? LOL
    I better go before I get CARRIED AWAY HERE! HA HA


      That ones for SHANNON and to all the GOOD PEOPLE out there who listen to SASQUATCH CRONICLIES! Except 1 lol
      I hope Patrick W wont respond to my COMMENTS as I may have a SERIOUS BREAK DOWN ! LOL HARD…..

  51. Scott P

    At Last !!!!! Eric Z, I’ll put my “End of Dayz” armored heavy metal squatches against your army. Finally a credible opponent to take on my super pooperz . I’ll give you home advantage…. Hehehe. Sorry. Just in One of those moods…

  52. Roy F

    oh jeez, poor Shannon. So many courtesy laughs for jesus. He thought he’s so funny. He’s the only one. I think I would have bailed on jesus, faking technical difficulties to cut this short. So many cringe moments. These were not humorous cringe moments like watching The Office. Don’t know how Shannon managed to pay attention, I would have zoned out daydreaming about …. anything else besides jesus’ words. Ugh, that was torturous.

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