Joe who is a listener of the show started this thread in the forums. I have invited him to come on the show and share his thoughts and some of the responses from you. If you have a topic you would like to share, start a forum thread and email me wes@sasquatchchronicles.com. I would like to have interesting content on the show that you want to hear.
The Origin Debate Continues: We Would Like To Hear From You
The forum link is http://sasquatchchron.wpengine.com/topic/the-origin-debate-continues-we-would-like-to-hear-from-you/
Joe writes “It seems like the origin debate has garnered quite a bit of interest. When I thought about it initially, the first thing that came to mind was Melba Ketchum’s Genome Project and the dna results, and although mainstream science refuses to jump on board and not even take a look at the study, or test the samples, as i stated in my comments in the forum, I have a hard time believing that she spent 5 years of hard work, and exhausting long hours to screw this up purposely or perpetuate false results. I stand by that and believe it showed what it showed. Admittedly, I know zero about dna testing and I think I speak for the majority of us when I say that. I can get about 2 or 3 pages into that study and i am ready to go into a deep coma like state for the lack of understanding all the technical jargon. It’s way over this farm boys head. That being said, i started racking my brain trying to think what other factors are out there, that would persuade me even more in my belief, that these creatures are indeed of human origin. I remembered one posting that i read from Jay Carlsen, (thank you Jay,) who wanted to know if I had ever seen the presentation by Llyod Pye on youtube called Everything you know is wrong, and as a matter of fact, i had. I remembered that in Mr. Pye’s presentation he spoke a lot about apes and humans, but it had been so long since i had seen it that I had to go back and watch it again. He talked about how apes didn’t have the anatomical makeup to form words, that’s when my light came on, it doesn’t come on much anymore so I paid particular attention when it did. Apparently, apes do not have vocal tracts that move freely enough, nor do they have the necessary coordination in the larynx muscles to allow them to form words. Zoologists have been trying for years to get captive primates to form words with zero success. Then I thought about the many reports of people hearing their names or family members names being called from the woods, or hearing their dogs names being called, and sounding like the person who usually calls the dog. This has been reported many times, too many to fall to some type of coincidence. So is it possible that not only the obvious anatomical similarities, the arms, legs, feet, hands, eyes, nose, mouth, resembles ours, but some of the internal structure may to as well? Which brings up another question, Are the only types of Sasquatch capable of forming words and imitating peoples voices have the human facial characteristics or can the types most resembling the ape have this ability as well? And is it just one or the other or both? What do you think?
Wes and I will discuss this very topic next week on the air, he will still be doing his regular show, just a little addition and something interesting that you can contribute to the show. so let me know what you think. We will go over your responses during the week and pull out a few of the most interesting ones and we may even possibly read yours. Looking forward to the responses.”
david s
Language has always been a main determining difference (other than DNA) between man and animals. God gave man the ability to communicate with each other via the spoken word. He did not give this to any of his other creatures/animals. BF has language and it has been recorded and observed which leads me to believe that they are mostly human. They are also more intelligent in their environment than man is (most of the time) in their environment. That’s one reason they are so difficult to find or capture. Their intelligence is higher than any other animal that I can think of, which also leads me to believe that they are mostly human. They have been repeatedly shown to reason, calculate, plan, carry out plans as an individual and as a group, attack and kill humans for no reason and with reason, etc…
I also believe that these creatures are created hybridized beings that were created by evil beings many thousands of years ago. They have been bread with other abilities that we call supernatural or superhuman, and which make them difficult to catch. Being created hybrid beings means that they also have no souls, like humans do. They are soulless like animals are. God gave souls to mankind, nothing else, because we are made in His image. What their purpose is on earth, only the government and the evil beings that created BF knows for sure.
Good idea Joe!
Jane M
Did dear old gad call up the Universe to tell her what to do? Really…..common folks…..who’s the stinky ape now?
Patricia R
You know, it is commonly said that scientists don’t believe in this creature, but what about Dr John Bindernagle in British Columbia , Dr Jeff Meldrum in Idaho (I’m sorry but I’m not certain of the university he is with) , and Dr Robert Alley in Alaska?
Maybe when people speak of others not believing , they are going by the “bigger picture” of the public accepting it and behaving as if they do exist.
I don’t have the answers.
Every question can lead to another question, but it sure is interesting, isn’t it?
Rob N
All flesh and blood creatures have rational, scientific explanations like life cycles, behavior patterns etc and Sasquatch won’t be any different, whether he turns out to be an ape, a human, or a human hybrid of some sort. We humans are also hybrids to a degree with some neanderthal and/or denisovan and/or hitherto unidentified archaic dna in us. I agree with Joe on the Melba Ketchum dna study results. Very interesting area for discussion. Looking forward to it.
SC – the greatest show on Earth!
mark s
Ahhh it is just a Dirty ape!!!! only kiddin
mark s
Sasquatch live all of the world in different types just like humans, and there is very good forensics and Dna proof, but how do we prove this Hominoid, without the Gov. intervention, to me this is the question, my opinion. Love to listening to peoples encounters because the behavior of the Sasquatch really interests me. Just want to know more and more.
Rick F
In the biblical record, God created the animal kingdom(biology flesh & blood) out of the elements of the ground(Gen 2:19). In Gen 2:7 God created man (biology flesh & blood) from that same ground. From my understanding DNA gives us our flesh & blood features, right down to the average length of arms,legs,facial features, etc.it would seem to me that the ape family’s DNA would be close to mans because we share similarities.. But that’s as far as it goes, because mankind was given the immaterial soul that make us infinitely unique from any animal. In Gen:1:25 it states. ” God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after it’s kind, and God saw that it was good”. Notice ” after it’s kind” . So a cat cannot breed with a dog , a ram with a pig, and so on. Now the fallen angels were able to procreate with human women, hence the nephilim and their demise in the flood. I state this for those of us on SC who believes the Bible is the infallible word of God who have a Biblical foundation to the way we think about everything in this life and the life to come. We are human because God gave us a soul( both fallen & elect angels have souls similar to ours) and sasquatch IMO is just another animal “after it’s kind”.
Joyce N
Rick? Have you never had a pet dog? They have souls. They will lay down their life to protect yours. They are known as man’s best friend. How can man have a best friend who has no soul? I’m sorry but I really, really, really, really, really disagree with you on that point. Well, pretty much every point you’ve made. You’re entitled to your opinions and beliefs as I am mine. But I truly think the bible was written by man to control the masses. They made God in man’s image, not the other way around. God is perfect and infallible, so how is it that he’s got the human emotions of hate, rage and jealousy? How is it that a perfect being needs a gender? I have lots of questions regarding the bible and I don’t mean to offend , but honestly, I feel it’s a really bad explanation of the true God by men using it to justify holy wars and injustice against any person who isn’t a man or gay. I doubt that God is really about those things. We humans get So caught up in and hung up on splitting hairs that we lose everything in translation. God is simple. It’s a creator. It’s the truest purest form of love. We blame god for varieties of things..why is my baby sick, why was my husband killed? Why did God let slavery happen? God didn’t do it..it was all us. Whether accident or intent, conscious or ignorance..we created this world we live in. God just leaves it to us to live and learn. Yes, we should try to be good people, that’s not always easy in every circumstance. So just do the best you can and try to live without regrets. And that’s just my humble opinion. So take it as you wish. Have a great day, people.
Debbie C
“Joe” has a great idea, looking forward to this upcoming discussion.
Just me thinking out loud,
David S thoughts had me agreeing with him, then I read;
” these creatures are created hybridized beings that were created
by evil beings many thousands of years ago.
They have been bread with other abilities that we call supernatural or superhuman”.
I’m not making fun, I don’t think that to be true at all.
I’ve always wondered about Sasquatch-Bigfoot, where did this creature originate from
the beginning of time?
My inner thoughts came to this answer, they are from prehistoric time.
Many animals of today have not change their outer appearance, they look like dinosaurs.
This link will help… http://www.viralnova.com/dinosaur-animals/
Perhaps Sasquatch is one of these animals who haven’t change through time?
Change isn’t necessary for all animals and mammals.
Rick F,
Again, I’m not going to say you are correct or you’re wrong
about animals not having souls.
I have personally witness animals souls.
I cannot prove what I’ve seen.
Are animals souls good? Well, just like humans souls,
there are good people and there are cruel people.
Good and bad/evil souls rome this blue planet both
human and animal.
scott p
I would tend to agree with you Rick.
Souls have been described as an energy\aura and since we can’t prove difinitevely what a soul is I feel your correct. We’re led to believe that humans are the only beings with a soul which in my opinion leads too many reasons why human beings destroy what is around them. I’ve heard this type of reasoning from many firm believers. There is good and bad in everything. It’s a balance and its a constant in this universe we live in.everything on this planet is connected and everything in this universe is connected. We’re just too small to realize this. Since we have neandrithal in us does that make us impure? This alone could pose a huge debate in whether we actually do have a soul because of this no? I don’t believe we should be bringing in religious beliefs into what this thing is. Sorry people but I feel that could make things go sideways when it comes to these matters. Just my opinion.
david s
If you indeed witnessed an animal’s “soul” Debbie it was not it’s soul but it’s spirit. Many people lump the two together as one thing. The spirit is the form of a person without the body. The soul is who that person is, the personality and the intelligence of a person. It’s who we are. I do think BF is ancient though..how old…who knows.
Debbie C
David S,
Well, I disagree with you,
I look at things differently I guess.
For me spirit and soul are one and the same.
Ghost are earth bound and attach themselves to objects.
I’m sure when we’re dead we will know the answers to unanswered questions.
Kenneth M
Didn’t the Texas “Killing Bigfoot” crew wound a bigfoot and got some DNA testing and the speces wasn’t human – it was ape like baboon or some sub type of ape?
Seems like there is some evidence to suggest bigfoot DNA does not appear as human when tested.
Tyler D
It would be amazing to have a phenomenal researcher from the southern states like Bob G, Bear or Coonbo as a co-host. All of those guys really know what they’re talking about, definitely ahead of their time in sasquatch research and they’re just amazing story tellers. They keep your attention til the very end of every show they’re involved in and have you wishing for more. I would absolutely love to be a part of this show in one way or another. That would be a dream come true without a shadow of a doubt
PJ
Interesting ideas. I have no clue myself. Since my encounter I question everything, even God and his existence. My paradigm has had a major shift since that day. I know Bigfoot/Sasquatch communicate vocally. Others far smarter than me tell us it is a true language in the human sense of the word, comprised of phonemes and morphemes, which I understand all languages must be comprised of. When I start thinking about it, it really starts to blow my mind a wee bit.
If Sasquatch has language, does he also have religion? Does he express to his buddies on an especially fine day that God indeed has made a wondrous world? He does not have the bible (as far as we know), because perhaps he has an eidetic memory. His need for writing things down just simply does not exist because he maybe doesn’t forget anything. I am not being facetious or flippant here or mocking…I hope that this does not come across that way. I believe what I saw was not human, it was more animal, while being the most human like animal I have ever seen. If that makes sense?
But when I start thinking about it speaking…I lose perspective. If it does speak, if it communicates with something complex like language; I wonder if he speaks of us? We the evil hairless scrawny creatures, the Godless ones who destroy the planet and kill their own kind. Does he have complex conversations about our DNA or perhaps if our pheromones make us a close relation or just another form of upright walking primate? When I think about it for too long I end up saying…”na…he is just a stupid monkey”…(not really, I know little for certain, but Sasquatch is not stupid that I do know)…but it somehow makes it easier to sleep if I relegate him to the animal side. I am interested to know where indeed he belongs…human or ape or a mixture.
Michelle D
I just finished my Biotech degree last year. I know a bunch about DNA and I’ve read Ketchum’s paper. Her science is sound. What do you need “translated” to farm boy English? Lol
Rick F
I understand your point PJ. When you experience an event or something so “real” that is so different than anything you’ve ever been taught or knew to have existed, it becomes life changing. You then begin to question that which you have been taught or understood all along to believe is real and whether it is in fact real or fiction. Its called rationalizing. As humans, things have to add up or make sense. For some it does, for others is does not. All forms of human civilizations through time have always believed in a higher power of some sort. Its what ever you choose to believe. …………….. Even though I am not a religious person, I believe in God.
Rob N
Yeah, if Sasquatch has language, I wouldn’t want to try to explain to him why he doesn’t have a soul
Mark B
Rob N~ Bravo Rob, Bravo. lol
Lorraine H
OK just a thought but has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps the reason why most wild animals run from man is because WE resemble them?(bf)
James B
I really hate even mentioning this, 1st I am a 100% believer. I personally have had 2 major sightings and at both I was not alone, there was a major difference between them I honestly think they were 2 species. but I was told not to talk about them and just mentioning it could be very dangerous.
What about Oxford geneticist Bryan Sykes study he did. Every sample, 10 from the US, were Bear, horse and racoon. He tested over 30 samples that he personally paid for at 100,000 pounds each test at the university of Oxford. also the BBC paid half, and of course I’m sure the Collage discount for a professor that is #1 in the field of Genetics. would get.
He even tested Justin Smeja the (Sierra baby Bigfoot Killer) hair and flesh that he claimed he went back and got 1 week later. Was a Brown Bear. When they told him he started crying and did not believe the Prof. by what I read as soon as the camera was off he ask them who paid them off. “COULD THAT BE THE COMMON ANSWER with all the testers. The one that looked like it came from around Mt. Pleasant was a Racoon, Now any good ol’ boy can tell the difference between Coon and Humanoid. Any Ideas about this. I personally felt like this British Professor and his BBC Newspuppy looked right at that d@mn camera and called all of us idiots and put us with the monks and people who believe in Big Foot, The Yeti, Sasquatch, Almasti, Skukum, Windigo, Oh-Mah, The Stone Giants, Skunk ape, Tsul’kälû that we don’t believe in science and are stupid. Is this all or part of the cover-up.
Dave T
Joe, you and I had already had some back and forth on your thread in the forum so I won’t repeat all that here. I would like to comment on some of the things I read here. I think some people put these creatures into the world of the supernatural because of the abilities they have and how they can adapt to survive. I don’t think there is anything supernatural or magical about these creatures. You also have to remember, these are the closest thing to a human being walking the planet so they are undoubtedly the most intelligent primate outside of us. I guess it’s easier for me to understand how and why these creatures can exist because of my time spent in the woods/outdoors. It takes away a lot of the mystery for me anyway. I am a religious person to a point and believe in God but it bothers me why religion is brought into try and explain something that is naturally occurring in the woods. The bible doesn’t explain everything, as much as some people would like it too. Take the bible for what it’s worth, a guide on how to live your life and be a better person. Bigfoot ain’t in the bible folks, sorry.
Debbie C
lol and the bible knows it all. no.
scott p
Well said dave.
Brett S
I like the idea of hiedalbergensis moving over the Bering straight and genetically bottle necking into a robust hominin to contend with North Americas glacial mega fauna. I can’t discount so many heartfelt encounters by reliable witnesses especially Wes and Woody’s. Many people after there encounter dedicate their lives to thes creatures and if only .01 percent of these encounters are true there is something out there that modern science refuses to acknowledge. I never had an experience though I e spent countless summers as an eagle s out camping all over Northern California but I have felt watched from the darkness of the redwood forests. The gimlin film to me is the smoking gun you can see muscle groups and the sheen Of living hair. Especially now that it has been stabilized by MK Davis and Bill Munns. As for the vocals there is definitely communication especially in the Sierra sounds and verified by Scott Nelson. People like Wes have dedicated their lives after their encounters with no real personal gain and much ridicule. I just don’t see this phenomenon as anything but real.
Steven J
I cannot see how religion or religious beliefs have anything to do with sasquatch other than possibly being yet another revelation of the diversity, power, and majesty that is God’s creation. To think that Sasquatch are some how different than the rest of creation, including humans, is folly.
All of these answers will be met when (evidently) a highly skilled, trained, and well equipped kill team (think Army Rangers or such) manage to go in and procure several specimens, hopefully without the loss of HUMAN life. I say several because I think you would be forced to kill most of a troop or group of them. After that we can look at studying their social structure and such. Let us not make this animal more than it is…
The real danger after its “discovery” is its becoming the ultimate “game” for sport hunting. Having a Sasquatch head would be quite a trophy to some sick people.
Tara J
I have heard a few references to the Bible for the origin of Sasquatch. I agree with the above comment about the the Bible being the infallible word of God. I also believe the Bible holds the answer to their origins in Genisis chapter 25 to 27. In Genisis 25:23 God tells Rebekah that 2 separate peoples or nations were in her womb and one nation would be stronger than the other nation and the older will serve the younger. The older twin was Esau who was red and hairy. He was also a skilled hunter and a man of the field. Esau sold his birthright to his younger twin for a bowl of stew. When it was time for their father Isaac (who was pretty much blind by then) to give the birthright blessing to Esau (read Genesis 27: 11-23), his brother Jacob disguised himself as Esau by covering his hands and back of his neck with goat skins which worked. Please read all of Genesis chapters 25 through 27 for full enlightenment. This is the only convincible explanation I have found for their very existence. This also explains why the human DNA and the diversity just like people. Also explains why the government doesn’t want it coming out. It’s one thing to protect an animal’s habitat but another thing entirely when it’s a race of wild humans who are bigger and stronger than the other race. And they are different, some would say freaks. No wonder they hide from us and watch us and sometimes kill us. We are taking their land, food etc. Big big big problems I believe. Just my own opinion but I am convinced.
Joel M
No ones going to jump on that bandwagon cuz they tend to end up dead. What’s that saying ” you get the most gunfire when your right over the target” or something like that. Lloyd Pie ended up dead. So did that Harrington guy from the military who discovered Planet X. Now bankers, scientists from NASA, and holistic doctors are dropping like flies.
Rick F
@Dave T: if you read my opinion and the accompanying verses you would have noticed the Bible reference on Gods creative work in the animal kingdom. BF is an animal therefore part of Gods creation therefore referenced in the verses.
Ryan o
Origins….
Many animals in the wild have mimicking capabilities. Mimicking sounds can be found in many different species. Birds mimic human speech the best. Birds can also develop quite the vocabulary. There is also evidence that they use those mimicked words in an intelligent manner, not just for the sake of mimicking. They use it to communicate and to problem solve.
Primates dont have this same speech ability, however they do have the capacity for a large vocabulary of human words.
I was taught in my anthropology course this spring that there are basically two classes of primates. Monkeys and Apes. Humans, gorrillas, chimpanzees and bonobos are the apes and all those other furry things with tails are the monkeys.
Out of all the apes this far the only known species of ape that can speak are hominins. Mostly it all goes back to Australopithecus (Lucy). That far back, they didn’t have the biology to speak like we do now.
Here is something that I have not heard yet when this Sasquatch topic comes up regarding differences between humans, apes and Sasquatch. The loss of the gut.
Our brain or bigger as our gut got smaller. This is the claim in my anthropology course. If you look back from Australopithecus to now, you will notice that cranium capacity increased as the guys got smaller. The hypothesis is that less energy was used to digest food and more energy directed to the brain.
Now, I notice that when a witness describes Sasquatch, it’s built like a baldy builder. It is never described with a large gut like a gorilla, chimpanzee, or orangutan (narrow shoulders with accompanying belly).
The idea being pushed in class nowadays is that humans began to cook their food. This allowed us to reduce the energy needed to digest raw foods. When I heard this I wondered about Sasquatch and the small belly (six pack). I wondered if Sasquatch was cooking food, but then thought that would be unlikely. This would mean they eat food raw which goes against this hypothesis.
Then I remember that hunters report the. Guys being stolen from their deer kills. Sasquatch aren’t takin the ‘good’ meat (the meat that Humans cook). Might be that they eat stuff that is easy to digest?
I call this the ‘gut dilemma’. No other great apes have a small gut like we do. Unless you add in Sasquatch that is.
Origins?
The bodybuilder description given by eyewitnesses is consistent. This would say that this is something that humans and Sasquatch have in common.
Paul M
Ryan O. Your insight to mimic is well taken.. while I was fishing in Alaska I was being harassed by either big crows or ravens. This went on for at least 30 to 40 minutes. There were 8 to 10 of these birds.. they were really loud and very annoying to say the least. They were flying around making all kinds of caw sounds. Well about a half hour into this it seemed to settle down with jus a few Remaining. THAT’S when it went really weird. .. on the other side of the river I heard these primates. .. yes primates. Monkey type sounds… all I could see was 3 remaining crows over there. .. the we’re on the small river rock that was about 75 ft away from me. There was a woods about 100 ft behind the birds. I couldn’t tell if the sound came from the woods or the birds. All I know is the birds were the only living thing I seen. This monkey chatting sounds lasted 7 to 10 seconds. That was it. Now if this was the birds where did they learn this.. just sayin.
jamie smith
Wes , I thought that you made this sight for people just to say what they have seen and to be able to get their encounters off their chest , you do an excellent job in the way you interview people. I think that bringing on another Co -host will cause the show to lose its direction because in the past the hosts became more interested in having their own sighting and tell the listener’s how much of an expert they are which really just became uninteresting. I think it’s the average person who says ” hey , I seen this and this is what happened ” then you say “cool man , thanks for sharing your encounter “, then move on to the next guest, that’s what made the show stand out to me. Just keep it simple and let the encounters do all the work ,that’s what I found really good about this show when I first listened to it.