@jackjudah-2
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Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve put this pic up regarding dogman. While I don’t think ALL dogman reports are misidentification, I do think a great many of them are. Below is a bear with mange. Imagine running into that standing on its hind legs.
@ Steven B: If I came across sign like that in the woods, you wouldn’t see anything but a blur of flannel as I raced back to the truck. Holy hell that’s a big print.
Thank you.
Honest to God, I thought Native American went out when First Nations went in. It gets hard keeping up with all the labels. As far as “noble savage” goes, for the record, I’m not fond of the term either, which is why I called it ridiculous.
I have the utmost respect for your people as they really were and are. I don’t have any for the stereotyped and embellished cr*p that gets so much attention around here. But I could’ve been a hell of a lot clearer the first time around, and I am sorry if it rubbed the wrong way.
Diana: “Hey Jack, howzit hangin? Yeah, I’ll go along with getting good ideas from chilled & experienced First Nations People vs. land grabbing, earth destroying, puckered White Devils.”
Feel free to get GOOD ideas from them. But you aren’t going to find those at Madame Rube’s New Age Bookstore. I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with the real deal. Very different stories than what you see on the market.
Chilled? Really? You ever seen photos of Custer’s dead after the Little Bighorn? Or read the reports of the aftermath of a Native American raid? Personally, if I was descended from a warrior culture as formidable as most native tribes’, the last thing I’d want to be characterized as is “chill”. They were grizzlies, not cuddly teddy bears for God’s sake!
As far as “land grabbing” goes. . .If taking land from somebody else is a deal breaker for you, then you better discount the Apache, the Comanche, the Sioux, the Blackfeet, the Crow, I could keep going, but hopefully you get the drift. It wasn’t exactly peace pipes and flower garlands over here before the Europeans showed up. Ask the Anasazi. Oh wait. You can’t. And it wasn’t Europeans who wiped them out.
That’s not defending what Europe did to the natives. That’s a black mark we aren’t ever going to wipe away. But painting the frontier situation as violent Europeans vs. “chill” natives? That’s ridiculous and insulting. They put up one hell of a fight. In the process, they did some heinous, barbaric, even, dare I say it, savage things. Just like us.
Image of a casualty from the Bighorn:
Chris, enough. I didn’t call you or yours savages. I said:
All this Rousseau enlightened savage b.s. is ridiculous.
You know, as in, I DID NOT agree with it?
Since you seem unwilling to google the term for yourself, here’s the Encyclopaedia Brittanica’s entry for it:
“Noble Savage”: In literature, an idealized concept of uncivilized man, who symbolizes the innate goodness of one not exposed to the corrupting influences of civilization.
The glorification of the noble savage is a dominant theme in the Romantic writings of the 18th and 19th centuries, especially in the works of Jean-Jacques Rousseau. For example, Émile, ou, De l’education, 4 vol. (1762), is a long treatise on the corrupting influence of traditional education; the autobiographical Confessions (written 1765–70) reaffirms the basic tenet of man’s innate goodness; and Dreams of a Solitary Walker (1776–78) contains descriptions of nature and man’s natural response to it…From the 15th to the 19th centuries, the noble savage figured prominently in popular travel accounts and appeared occasionally in English plays such as John Dryden’s Conquest of Granada (1672), in which the term noble savage was first used, and in Oroonoko (1696) by Thomas Southerne, based on Aphra Behn’s novel about a dignified African prince enslaved in the British colony of Surinam.
François-René de Chateaubriand sentimentalized the North American Indian in Atala (1801), René (1802), and Les Natchez (1826), as did James Fenimore Cooper in the Leatherstocking Tales (1823–41), which feature the noble chief Chingachgook and his son Uncas. The three harpooners of the ship Pequod in Melville’s Moby Dick (1851), Queequeg, Daggoo, and Tashtego, are other examples.
http://www.britannica.com/art/noble-savage
Clear things up a bit? In modern times, the “noble savage” concept has essentially become a counterpart to the “magical negro” trope that I think we can all agree is beyond insulting. Yet the latter gets condemned, and the former glorified.
Finally, Knobby. Thank’s for being so fair and balanced, buddy. Really appreciate it. Next time though, when you quote me, don’t paraphrase.
And yes. I do have a brand spanking new account over on Talk Bigfoot. Wanted to find out what the hubbub was all about. You’ll also kindly note I haven’t made a single post. Not one. Not even an intro. Not that it’s anybody’s business. Or did I sign an exclusivity clause nobody told me about?
Also. . .let’s give your paranoid fantasies a hearing. If I was here with an agenda, why in the hell would I be using the same user name?
Chris, you seem the most outraged, so I’ll address you, rather than the entire pitchfork wielding mob. I apologize if “indian” offended you. Doesn’t offend all natives. I’ve been laughed at by your own for using the term Native American. But again, sincerely, if the use offended you, I apologize.
Now, the other “issues”. Read closer, and calmer.
1) Blowing smoke is not lumping natives in with con artists. Jesus. It’s a historical event. Entire medical careers were built around the concept when it made it to Europe. How can a true story be an insult? It’s history. Very, very funny history that I would be proud of if it was mine.
It’s also something of a tradition. El Dorado was another whopper with hilarious consequences. I don’t see anything insulting in acknowledging the fact that many natives have, for a very long time, enjoyed seeing just how gullible us Europeans are.
I also know, from personal experience, that the tradition is alive and well. See it at every street fair. Hear it on every fringe show and read it on every fringe site. Folks are making money warping your traditions. And I know a lot of your people aren’t all that pleased with it either.
2) Did you, by chance, google “noble savage”? I wasn’t calling anyone a savage. In fact, please note that I called the concept “nonsense”. It’s a concept. A very famous, influential concept that propagates a philosophy lots of folks have latched onto and embellished. Its current incarnation can be found right in this thread, or in your local New Age bookstore.
3) At no time did I address the validity of ACTUAL native beliefs at all. I did let loose on the pop culture misrepresentation of those beliefs. Reread that paragraph:
Do they know things we don’t? Absolutely. But the mystical claptrap they peddle in New Age book stores and everywhere else the lunatic fringe frequents is about as real to your average Indian as Leprechauns are to your average Irishman.
I thought that was pretty clear. I guess I could have been more precise with my pronouns. My point wasn’t to question your actual heritage. My point was to attack the ridiculous false b.s. currently perpetuated by charlatans of EVERY color that claims to be native belief.
If I was you, I’d be screaming every time the History Channel warps your mythology into a comedic farce. And I’d want to beat the daylights out of any of my people who contributed.
Ultimately, my statements could have been made with considerably more tact. I admit that. But the points are valid, not defamatory. Believe it. Don’t believe it.
Diana said: “I’ll yield to what the First Nations People, with 1000’s of years experience, think of Squatch & their supernormal abilities.”
You mean the people whose favorite sport is telling tall tales to the White Man? Seriously. You know where the term “blowing smoke” comes from? An Indian chief convinced some early explorer that literally blowing tobacco smoke up one’s arse was efficacious. The result was a booming trend in Europe of folks poking pipes up their posteriors to relieve everything from ED to constipation.
All this Rousseau enlightened savage b.s. is ridiculous. Do they know things we don’t? Absolutely. But the mystical claptrap they peddle in New Age book stores and everywhere else the lunatic fringe frequents is about as real to your average Indian as Leprechauns are to your average Irishman.
They’re laughing at us. For those who’ve turned the time honored past time of messing with our heads into a business, they’re laughing all the way to the bank. Good for them. Shame on us.
@Mark B: I’ve got family down St. Louis way. Lived there for a little over a year. Only squatches I ran into in MO were the ones frequenting Walmart.
It’s Judah, not Judas. I do have red hair. But I demand payment in gold, not silver. . .
(I couldn’t resist — the typo was too perfect!)Diana: No thanks. It appears the rest of the class has gone and drunk the cool-aid. I’ll stick with water. But y’all have fun now, hear?
Papa-Yeti: Ha! Jeez, I think I might need an x-ray. Almost broke the damn desk on this one.
Giannini’s story is a corker, that’s for sure. You’re right. It is beyond absurd. Still, though, for sheer entertainment value, the Hollow Earth theory is one of my favorites. About a year ago, a similar yarn about John Quincy Adams financing an expedition to open up trade negotiations with the mole people popped into circulation. Alas for lovers of irony everywhere, it’s also false.
JQA didn’t believe in a civilization of sentient moles and Byrd didn’t run into Klaatu at the South Pole. But somebody should buy the movie rights to both stories.
The stuff Diana and the “class” are spouting isn’t new. It isn’t groundbreaking. It’s over a century old. And most of it started as sci-fi and fantasy until somebody figured out there was less competition in the nonfiction section of the bookstore.
Oh, and for the record, absolutely nothing happens between the feet of the Sphinx. Unless you’re crazy enough to buy hashish from that weird Bedouin guy who hangs out behind the McDonalds next to the Great Pyramid. Then all bets are off.
I’m beginning to think this forum is a great place to sell swamp land.
Naked Ewoks with glowing red eyes? Portals? Seriously? It isn’t even good fiction.
Dr.J’s not on drugs. He’s just suffering from a potentially lethal case of blarney syndrome. A hundred years ago, he’d be peddling snake oil.
Anybody who’s buying this probably should consider getting a prescription for something though.
Frankly, the more time I spend in the bigfoot community, the more I find myself in danger of being converted from ambivalent believer back to skeptic.
Thanks! That is plum cool. I picked out about a half dozen. Didn’t expect the whole family though.
This is a perfect example of why the big guy doesn’t need woo-woo superpowers to evade us. Just woodcraft that compliments our own failings as a species. The default for humans, when they’re scanning for a threat, is to keep their eyes in the distance, assuming everything in their immediate area is ‘clear’. Many a scalp was lost to Indian ambushes that way. I imagine, many a squatch has been missed for the same reason.
I remember reading an account of a cavalry colonel sent to New Mexico to deal with the Apaches in the latter half of the 19th century. He rode out with his command, blithely unaware of just how outclassed his men were. On open ground, he was completely unconcerned with the possibility of an attack.
He had a native scout who warned him the Apache could strike from ambush in any terrain. The colonel didn’t believe him. So the scout told him to turn around and count to five. They were standing in flat desert terrain. When the colonel turned back around, the scout was nowhere to be seen. Until he popped up right next to him. I imagine the flute players and mystics on here would assume he was a magic Indian, when in reality, it was merely a display of the true mastery borne from life-long training.
Something to think about next time y’all are out in the woods!
