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November 21, 2018 at 8:03 pm #139513
Matthew A
ParticipantAugustine,
Thanks for the reply. Its tricky you see, because bear will build dens under tree fall, in logs, nests in trees, underground, heck, even build nests that look like large bird nests on the ground. The feces are a similar matter, they can look so different depending on the season, what they are eating and environment. This makes it difficult to differentiate between what is Sasquatch and what is bear activity. There is clear evidence of a hominid presence, a very strong one. However, when it comes to nesting sites and feces it becomes complicated when you see what bear can do. The species clearly overlap one another, and the bear seem to come into the areas sas were occupying after they leave. Stick breaks can be seen close to bear territorial markers showing that at different times they overlap territories.
Though, winter is coming, so a sure true way is if I find these large nest sites – fresh ones, then I can without a doubt rule out bear!
November 21, 2018 at 7:42 pm #139509Matthew A
ParticipantGunshoguy,
Thanks for the reply and interpretation. I have to disagree, I think it is clear that when they want someone to leave that there are plenty of examples of behavior that we can understand without having to think about it. The fact that their method of telling someone to leave is normally through a show of force ether by a growl, a yell, or large rock and stick throwing with other great ape behaviors. However, the small pebble throws clearly have a different message and connotation to them. If they really wanted us to leave, they know exactly how to do it.
Something that should be noted is that as a norm in testimonies in pebble throws or other small objects normally occur when you are minding your own business, like at a campsite, well known trail, home etc. However, clearly aggressive behavior is normally when you get to close to them for comfort ether by mistake or on purpose.
The pebbles seem to suggest another mode of communication, less aggressive, playful and wanting more of something, whether that be more interactions, food or play.
Knobby,
In some older accounts and ill refer to the Native American that got kidnapped on Vancouver Island – he is taken up to cliffs with overhangs where a large troop of 20 I believe where bedding and living under it (I wonder what time of the year it was). The area I am around has many steep ravines and cliffs and a lot of the canyons in these areas are considered “haunted” with ghostly shadows disappearing, objects being thrown, creatures with red glowing eyes and strange noises. While I speculate that I have no doubt that they are opportunistic and will set up in whatever favorable place they can find. I am still trying to figure out if the large nest like structures are what I think they are. If I am right, then it helps build a profile or where to look for them in this type of environment. Stick breaks are always associated nearby them in dense brush with large trees scattered throughout. If I am able to exclude bear as a suspect, then I can work on solidifying this pattern analysis.
I need to find a wildlife biologist that specializes in black bear behavior.
November 21, 2018 at 5:14 pm #139503Matthew A
ParticipantThanks again Gumshoguy,
I agree that the norm and track patterns for most animals is smaller sizes and higher elevation during the warmer months and larger groups doing the winter ones at lower elevations. However, we cant dismiss the human factor and how cities and urban centers change animal behavior. Here in Colorado Springs, the predators and prey, like deer and mountain lion stay all year round near the city limits and even in the city itself as it gives plenty of food and shelter. So I have to wonder about a hominid species whose only incentive I must assume to go a little further away is the lack of leaves for concealment and tracks left during snow. Which luckily for them, in this area which is close to a high desert and melts rather quickly.
It has been my experience in the past, and in the last year of continued observation and interaction that as long as they have cover and concealment and food nearby to bring them in they have no problem getting close to people and literally messing with them.
I suspect, pebble throws initially are to gauge their target of interest to asses its threat level. The way a deer will stomp its hoof to see if it draws out anything. I think later this pebble throwing becomes used as a tool for multiple reasons. Initially in the more controlled experiment, they would throw pebbles to see our response and stop when we looked out the window in their direction. This over the span of weeks developed into a conditioning of the them and us (us: Girlfriend). It became clear that when we were not being active like talking or moving in my Jeep they would throw more pebbles to engage us – like watching us do things was of high interest to them. Eventually after a month of this behavior and trying different experiments we became jaded and started falling asleep. I have a bed system and basically a camper jeep so its easy to get comfortable. What started happening when we began to sleep through the small pebble throws was they would escalate and throw large pebbles that would make a lot of noise. They would continue until we started moving and then the smaller pebbles would resume. I think this suggests that pebble throws are a way to engage while still staying safe behind cover and concealment.
This first time I had an experience, it was in the same area and pebbles began being thrown at me from the brush and I assumed it was a person only to be shocked to find out it was not. However, I went in and cut off their egress route…this prompted an aggressive response in which the large scrub oaks started shaking violently and large branches and rocks being thrown in my direction with what sounded like a bluff charge. The point is, is that there seems to be clear indication between when they want you to leave, or feeling threatened versus when they are throwing small pebbles or pine cones. It is my opinion based on my observations in the field that pebble throwing is a friendly method on their part to begin communication in a way suited for them. It is quite unusual for us being more direct, but if I am right then its a step in the right direction of building rapport and a face to face.
There have been encounters myself included during the winter months at the edge of the city in the open spaces which makes me ponder if those nearby urban center ever have to go far. Im sure each troop is different and has its own culture based on experiences from its past.
November 21, 2018 at 7:59 am #139488Matthew A
ParticipantAlso, is there any evidence or testimony to suggest that during winter in some parts, these hominid species congregate together in a large troop during winter? Say up to 20 members and then during warmer months leave in bands along their hunting ranges and continue the cycle annually?
November 21, 2018 at 7:45 am #139487Matthew A
ParticipantThanks Gumshowguy!
Its hard to be sure, I have been reading up and studying the black bear to cross reference evidence, and black bear will create nests, but they will also create dens above ground for winter that look like debris shelters. Their feces can also come in all shapes and consistency based on what they eat and time of the season. Its hard in some aspects of the investigation, when you take a very good and critical look to know what type of nesting structures and feces are bear or something else.
Tree breaks, tracks for the most part, vocalizations, skinned large game in the same manner with brute force you would a rabbit, and of course hallmark signs of something being thrown at you from the woods along with sightings are all pretty easy to differentiate from most other known animals. However when it comes to some of these structures, nests, and feces it has been my observation going to the same area everyday for the last year that bear play a significant role in misidentified evidence.
Are there any cases where someone saw them nesting, sleeping or laying down and gave a detailed account of the area they were sleeping or resting in? I have read some of the links you posted about sleeping accounts, but none of them go into detail about how the earth looked in the spot they stayed. This is a critical piece of information to get right in order to be confident of areas being habituated.
-Mateo
November 20, 2018 at 9:22 pm #139466Matthew A
ParticipantIf you ever come back, you don’t even need to go high up into the mountains just check out places with lots of brush and timber that have egress routes back into the foothills. Places like Cheyenne Canyon, Bear Creek Park and Red Rocks Canyon Open Spaces.
In fact I don’t think the group that lives in that area go very far into the foothills, I would say during winter they may venture 2,000FT in elevation and tend to prefer the South East slopes that get the most sun. Follow the deer!
Walk the trails and look for stick breaks or dead animal parts hanging from the brush, this is an indication where they are. If there are no deers in an area – this is a sign that they may be nearby. We have a huge over population of mule deer so if they are not around it is an indicator and warning.
However the most success is just going to the same spot night after night with heavy brush and trees nearby, like at a picnic site. If they pass through the area and you don’t seem threatening they will proceed to chuck small pebbles at you. If you are like me the first time this happened and assume its a person playing a prank on you and go in after them you will get a rude awakening and don’t be surprised it larger sticks and rocks come your way while trees and brush start shaking and you feel you are being rushed! ;).
April 2, 2018 at 12:50 pm #124281Matthew A
ParticipantYou want to lure them to you? Well you are probably not going to like how. Put yourself in a vulnerable position, like in a valley with lots of cliffs, trees and cover – not for you, but for them to approach you. If you feel uncomfortable, exposed and dont like the spot you are in, then you have picked a perfect spot to “lure” them in. They will always have the advantage and will always pick the most advantageous spot. Think master tactician and strategist. If you choose the best and most protected spot they will not approach.
You already have to place yourself in a vulnerable position and then next what I unfortunately found out by mistake and the hard way is within a small area just laugh, run around and pretend or do something where you yell, laugh and run around. might have to do it for a few hours or several occasions. This shows that you have your guard down and the noise will intrigue them and if you are doing this at night they will literally come feet away if they have cover and concealment…
In the end its a terrifying experience and takes a lot of courage to lower your guard and place yourself in a vulnerable position and try and call in a highly intelligent apex predator. Go in armed, but have the weapon concealed, do not under any circumstances fire, they travel in bands and most rounds, especially from a hand gun do not have the FPE (foot pounds of energy) to take one down, not that it matters because you will get quickly ambushed by another – they will always be outflanking you. Only use the gun as a show of force, I am confident they know what it is and just revealing it may give you enough intimidation if things get dicy. Though I stress do not shoot or fire the gun with them around, it is a sure death wish.
Good luck and be carful, I still wont go out at night anymore…
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